I first encountered the arousal/lust distinction in Andrea Dworkin's analysis of Joan of Arc (Intercourse, chapter 6) and it shattered my world.
In many recorded interviews with Joan of Arc's soldiers, they say that, lying down "all in the straw together" with her and seeing her bare-breasted, they felt arousal/desire, but, emphatically, no lust. They accepted as fact that she was sexually unavailable, and that alone appears to have been enough to allow her to function among them as a person and a leader and not a sex object.
To me, this suggests that lust, far from being an ever-present thing, is actually very narrowly constrained. When we perceive that sex is available, *only then* does some primitive part of our brain say "You need to make that happen right now!" That's lust. Useful to help male spiders overcome their reluctance to have their heads bitten off. Problematic for humans, who can and do learn to see everyone as "available".
Thank you so much for the work you do! I was reading Andrea Dworkin trying to figure out how to teach my own thee boys about sexuality, having failed to find any capable moral framework articulated in Christian sources. Now I can't wait to get your book!
Fist bump to another dad of three boys. THat's a huge reason why I wrote this book.
That is a fascinating account of Joan of Arc and her fellow soldiers. I would probably call that awe... I'm going to go read that. And yes, lust holds several connotations: intense desire or sinful objectification. Interestingly, I read an account of how spiders actually "play" together and mimic sex before the moment of head biting. Maybe it's total surprise on the part of the male spider!
I look forward to hearing your feedback on my book.
Fair warning: Andrea Dworkin is brilliant but very intense. Raw. However, I love her because I've never encountered another person writing about sexuality who makes me feel: *seen*, in that she describes dynamics of my own sexuality that I had never explicitly noticed before but that are instantly familiar; *convicted*, because she explains why what I thought was kind of OK is really deeply problematic; and *encouraged*, because she breaks down how this is not an inevitable outcome of my biology but a result of ways of thinking that we can and should break out of.
I open my upcoming book talking about the “glory of kings”.
There is a text that says, “it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the glory of kings to search it out”. It highlights what you are saying here about awe.
The glory of God in us is to examine, explore, inquire and be curious of God, ourselves and one another.
This is so good. “So good” actually doesn’t do it justice. You put into words what I have been trying to model and exemplify for so long. Simply wonderful.
Sam! This is so good. Every Dec/Jan I meditate with God on a "theme" for the year (thanks, WAH!). This year is "awe". I've come to believe that this is a skill that can be re-learned through practice. There is an element that is always surprise, but the practice is in intentionally seeking it, organizing experiences and putting myself in places so that it can find me. And God never disappoints. Awe is secret key to so much healing and goodness. As usual, you are spot on, my friend. You've got a beautiful soul, sir. Keep going. And Thanks.
I love this Jeremiah! What a rich thing to be immersed in this year. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. Awe is truly an amazing thing with profound capacity to heal.
I appreciate the image you provide of taking in and experiencing your wife's art with her --and her / your capability to see and consider beauty in the human form without either being driven to outright lust or needing to go consummate some mutual arousal (would that have been appropriate had it arisen--am I messed up for imagining it?)
I grew up reading comic books --the vast majority were Superman comics. I liked to draw and learned to draw muscular men. DC comics was not IMO overt in hyper-sexualizing the human form, and I don't think DC generally evoked particularly voluptuous female bodies --yet comics tend to idealize people in various ways --not the least within form-fitting clothing. I think various aspects of comics drew me towards various imaginative idealized renderings of men and women. And did eventually expose me to more overtly sexualized renderings of women/men. Maybe this is a long circuitous way of saying I spent a lot of time in my imagination and have a complicated relationship with it.
I think I can see the sort of beauty you are calling us to and did not grow up focusing on particular body parts and yet the allure is bound up with various ways I have "joined shame" through the years.
So part of me struggles significantly with what the path looks like to recovering awe without re-joining passages I am poorly equipped to navigate.
Wow, this is excellent and thoughtful. A recovery of awe...yes! So, if we were able to recover awe and look at each other the way Jesus looked at the Samaritan woman (and everyone!), maybe we could recover true, healthy friendships between men and women, as well as gracious intimacy in our marriages. That story about some men having a reaction to beauty and wanting to suppress it is very sad. What have we done to ourselves? We really have been given the seaside. But, somehow we are ashamed of it. So, instead of being awed by it and enjoying God's creation, we have turned to the mud pies.
I first encountered the arousal/lust distinction in Andrea Dworkin's analysis of Joan of Arc (Intercourse, chapter 6) and it shattered my world.
In many recorded interviews with Joan of Arc's soldiers, they say that, lying down "all in the straw together" with her and seeing her bare-breasted, they felt arousal/desire, but, emphatically, no lust. They accepted as fact that she was sexually unavailable, and that alone appears to have been enough to allow her to function among them as a person and a leader and not a sex object.
To me, this suggests that lust, far from being an ever-present thing, is actually very narrowly constrained. When we perceive that sex is available, *only then* does some primitive part of our brain say "You need to make that happen right now!" That's lust. Useful to help male spiders overcome their reluctance to have their heads bitten off. Problematic for humans, who can and do learn to see everyone as "available".
Thank you so much for the work you do! I was reading Andrea Dworkin trying to figure out how to teach my own thee boys about sexuality, having failed to find any capable moral framework articulated in Christian sources. Now I can't wait to get your book!
Fist bump to another dad of three boys. THat's a huge reason why I wrote this book.
That is a fascinating account of Joan of Arc and her fellow soldiers. I would probably call that awe... I'm going to go read that. And yes, lust holds several connotations: intense desire or sinful objectification. Interestingly, I read an account of how spiders actually "play" together and mimic sex before the moment of head biting. Maybe it's total surprise on the part of the male spider!
I look forward to hearing your feedback on my book.
Fair warning: Andrea Dworkin is brilliant but very intense. Raw. However, I love her because I've never encountered another person writing about sexuality who makes me feel: *seen*, in that she describes dynamics of my own sexuality that I had never explicitly noticed before but that are instantly familiar; *convicted*, because she explains why what I thought was kind of OK is really deeply problematic; and *encouraged*, because she breaks down how this is not an inevitable outcome of my biology but a result of ways of thinking that we can and should break out of.
Sam, will you be having one of your zoom discussions on this article?
Yes! Though it may be delayed a little. My book launches in a week.
The glory of God in us is experienced through awe. **
Yep, that's right!
I open my upcoming book talking about the “glory of kings”.
There is a text that says, “it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the glory of kings to search it out”. It highlights what you are saying here about awe.
The glory of God in us is to examine, explore, inquire and be curious of God, ourselves and one another.
The glory of God in us is to stand in awe.
I love this.
That's really good, Darron!
This is so good. “So good” actually doesn’t do it justice. You put into words what I have been trying to model and exemplify for so long. Simply wonderful.
Woah, thank you! I'm so honored and humbled by your feedback. I love that it resonated with things you'd already been pondering and LIVING. Very cool!
Sam! This is so good. Every Dec/Jan I meditate with God on a "theme" for the year (thanks, WAH!). This year is "awe". I've come to believe that this is a skill that can be re-learned through practice. There is an element that is always surprise, but the practice is in intentionally seeking it, organizing experiences and putting myself in places so that it can find me. And God never disappoints. Awe is secret key to so much healing and goodness. As usual, you are spot on, my friend. You've got a beautiful soul, sir. Keep going. And Thanks.
I love this Jeremiah! What a rich thing to be immersed in this year. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. Awe is truly an amazing thing with profound capacity to heal.
I appreciate the image you provide of taking in and experiencing your wife's art with her --and her / your capability to see and consider beauty in the human form without either being driven to outright lust or needing to go consummate some mutual arousal (would that have been appropriate had it arisen--am I messed up for imagining it?)
I grew up reading comic books --the vast majority were Superman comics. I liked to draw and learned to draw muscular men. DC comics was not IMO overt in hyper-sexualizing the human form, and I don't think DC generally evoked particularly voluptuous female bodies --yet comics tend to idealize people in various ways --not the least within form-fitting clothing. I think various aspects of comics drew me towards various imaginative idealized renderings of men and women. And did eventually expose me to more overtly sexualized renderings of women/men. Maybe this is a long circuitous way of saying I spent a lot of time in my imagination and have a complicated relationship with it.
I think I can see the sort of beauty you are calling us to and did not grow up focusing on particular body parts and yet the allure is bound up with various ways I have "joined shame" through the years.
So part of me struggles significantly with what the path looks like to recovering awe without re-joining passages I am poorly equipped to navigate.
Wow, this is excellent and thoughtful. A recovery of awe...yes! So, if we were able to recover awe and look at each other the way Jesus looked at the Samaritan woman (and everyone!), maybe we could recover true, healthy friendships between men and women, as well as gracious intimacy in our marriages. That story about some men having a reaction to beauty and wanting to suppress it is very sad. What have we done to ourselves? We really have been given the seaside. But, somehow we are ashamed of it. So, instead of being awed by it and enjoying God's creation, we have turned to the mud pies.
Your book looks like a great one!